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Post by garp on May 9, 2005 21:37:05 GMT 7
3. Anti-skate - usually blank LP ang gamit para ma set ito, pero since wala ako nun... gumawa ako ng Digital Anti skate gauge ;D also known as a Laser disc - sakto kapal at laki nya, i sesentro mo nga lang muna ;D Thanks. Great tip about laserdisc for anti-skate.
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s2kov
Critical Listener
Posts: 353
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Post by s2kov on May 9, 2005 22:03:37 GMT 7
Vince,
Nice info regarding the use 45rpm adapter to level the platter/ttable! May gamit na din yung Jurassic Park laser disc ko! ;D
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Post by wanderlust on May 11, 2005 11:34:33 GMT 7
garp,
if the sole purpose of replacing the cover back into the TT is dust protection, why not use other alternatives like a clothe to cover the TT and thereby protect it from dust rather than using the cover.
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Post by sandawa on May 11, 2005 14:06:25 GMT 7
Sandawa, Thank you for sharing. But it doesn't answer my question ;D ;D ;D. My scenario kasi is I'm using a new catridge whose weight is the upper limit of what the counterweight can handle---so this means that to be able to balance the arm, the counterweight will have to be positioned far from the arm pivot and near or on the edge of the end stub. I read this in itself creates some problems. Now I can balance the arm using the supplied counterweight and its right on the edge of the end stub. So far so good. I do the VTF. Still ok. I close the cover and the back wall touches the edge of the counterweight and pushes it back in towards the arm pivot. Not so good because now I have to adjust the VTF again. Easy solution--don't put the cover back on. Problem is I need that cover. Ok so I need to add weight to the counterweight so that its not on the edge of the stub. Question is, how much weight is optimal? Iceman90 mentioned that adding anything at all creates resonance problems. I know I can just experiment and play this by ear but would want to know if there is some sort of rule of thumb applicable here. But thanks again for your previous inputs. the last paragraph, i thought answered your question. while traditional cartridges are set from 1 to 3 grams, i believe DJ-type cartridges are set from 3 to 5 grams. if you're using the DJ-type heavy cartridge, you certainly have to add weight to balance your tonearm. once the tonearm is balanced, the value of the gauge should go back to zero. that's the time to go back to adjusting the counterweight as per number in grams recommended by the cartridge maker. i'm not familiar with your turntable, so, if you feel i'm getting astray, disregard this post. i could be wrong.
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Post by kimpao on May 11, 2005 14:18:16 GMT 7
garp, if i were in your shoes i'd follow vince's advise though it would require me to shell-out a significant amount of money atleast it would give piece of mind. but if adding anything to the counter weight inorder to give it the proper adjustments does not degradethe sound quality nor the performance of the TT then by all means, i would stick to that.
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Post by garp on May 11, 2005 15:16:41 GMT 7
Thank you to all who responded to my questions. ;D Sorry if I asked questions without full details. Here are the details: I have a pro-ject debut III. Sandawa is right, VTF adjustments limited to only 3 gms while catridge weight upper limit is 6 grams for the supplied counterweight. I needed to mount a Shure V15x that weighed 6.6 grams. I couldn't balance the arm with the supplied counterweight. There is an optional counterweight for heavier catridges available for debut III but not available at the moment from audio den so I resorted to washers. So I was thinking if I could add just enough to the supplied counterweight to approximate that of the optional counterweight this will work (I've emailed sumiko for the optional counterweight specs). I added a washer that's a snug fit to the counterweight, balanced the arm, adjusted the VTF and for 3 days it was great until a freaky accident (insert expletives here) caused the shure a premature death . After that I replaced it with Grado Green (6 grams). I noticed that without the washer, the counterweight is right on the edge of the end stub. I can't close the cover otherwise my VTF will change. I added the washer, now the counterweight is closer to the pivot arm and so far am happy with the sound.
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Post by stereophile on May 12, 2005 5:09:17 GMT 7
garp- I would still order the other counterweight from audio den. Later on you might change cartridges again. It makes the job easier having the heavier counter weight. Besides, you have more options for cartridge choices.
If you bent the stylus of the V15xMR(?), place an order for a replacement thru the Audiophile stores. That way, it won't be a total loss.
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Post by sandawa on May 12, 2005 7:16:59 GMT 7
hi garp,
sorry for what happened. i'm now more sympathetic to your problem considering Shure V-15 is a hard-to-find cartridge/stylus system here. i have one myself but didn't experience problem mounting it on my old turntables in the past. i always get the tonearm balanced before setting up the tracking pressure.
i confess i'm lost with the limitations of new production TTs. my Shure V-15 is currently fitted to a vintage Dual 1219 with the tracking force set at 1.5 grams, higher than the manufacturer's recommended range of 0.75 to 1.25 grams. that's the setting i find it best sounding.
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Post by garp on May 12, 2005 10:03:58 GMT 7
garp- I would still order the other counterweight from audio den. Later on you might change cartridges again. It makes the job easier having the heavier counter weight. Besides, you have more options for cartridge choices. If you bent the stylus of the V15xMR(?), place an order for a replacement thru the Audiophile stores. That way, it won't be a total loss. Hi Stereophile, I agree. I was just a little giddy about using the Shure that I couldn't wait to mount it, hence the washer. I've already checked with Audiophile and the price is way cheaper there than online. Thanks.
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Post by garp on May 12, 2005 10:42:54 GMT 7
hi garp, sorry for what happened. i'm now more sympathetic to your problem considering Shure V-15 is a hard-to-find cartridge/stylus system here. i have one myself but didn't experience problem mounting it on my old turntables in the past. i always get the tonearm balanced before setting up the tracking pressure. i confess i'm lost with the limitations of new production TTs. my Shure V-15 is currently fitted to a vintage Dual 1219 with the tracking force set at 1.5 grams, higher than the manufacturer's recommended range of 0.75 to 1.25 grams. that's the setting i find it best sounding. Thanks. I was able to get the optional counterweight specs from Sumiko the heavier models weigh 77g and 85g. Will probably get the 77g. As for the shure, its not so much hard to find as it is quite expensive and considering the table I'm using, its mismatched.
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Post by stereophile on May 13, 2005 4:56:04 GMT 7
garp- My Project Studie has 2 arms: a 9-inch and a 12-inch arm. I'm using a Denon DL-103 Std on the 12-in and a SHURE V15xMR on the 9-in arm. My turntable came with 2 counterweights. Im not sure of the actual weight, but the bigger of the two is mounted in the 9-in arm and the lighter in the 12-in. This is as per instruction of Audio Den, since the manual wc came with the ttable wasn't specific. I had no problem mounting the wonderful V15xMR. It's been phased out now by Shure. The reason being that BERRYLIUM wc is used in the stylus cantilever, is getting rarer and more expensive to source out. Maybe FOCAL JM Labs is gobbling up all the berrylium for its exotic tweeters! Neverthe less, Shure anounced in its website that they will stock up 5 years worth of styli for our V15xMR! I had a spare stylus reserved thru Audiophile. So far none yet have arrived. It's a great MM cart. The nice thing about Project, is that its production costs are low and that benefit is passed to us the customer. I heard that it is practically produced tax free. That is why I recommend that you get the extra counterweight so that in the future you can use again your V15. As to this being mismatched for your table, I don't agree. I have stated before that many analog enthusiasts believe that the cost of cartridge should not exceed the cost of the turntable for reasons of tonearm rigidity, bearing quality, platter stability, motor reliability, isolation of the motor, etc. The V15 costs less than the Debut 3. The most I'd mount on it would be in the 15-18K region. Some say that if you mount a more expensive cart, the cart will eventually tell you it wants a higher level of ttable.
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Post by bayonic on May 13, 2005 6:12:10 GMT 7
I had no problem mounting the wonderful V15xMR. It's been phased out now by Shure. The reason being that BERRYLIUM wc is used in the stylus cantilever, is getting rarer and more expensive to source out. sir, i've recently come across sealed V15xMRs for sale ... but I'm quite worried because I've seen two different types of packaging from different stores . . . do you still have the original box and if so can you post a pic or a link to what it should look like ? and the SHure cart is made in Mexico , right? tia
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Post by sandawa on May 13, 2005 9:02:07 GMT 7
just a simple tip i learned from oldtimers in the '80s when i was just starting with this hobby, which i forgot to share in my previous posts.
if your collection comprises mostly new vinyls (and audiophile issues), it's always better to use elliptical stylus (or similar designs) to minimize record wear.
if your collection comprises old records, each one played a dozen times already, better to use spherical stylus, such as the ones used by DJs, which were designed for hi-fi but not necessarily for audiophile listening.
why? because spherical stylus has better contact with worn-out grooves. the reason why i'm still using Shure M44-7 and M75 liberally, except on Japanese virgin and audiophile vinyls.
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Post by garp on May 13, 2005 9:36:54 GMT 7
The nice thing about Project, is that its production costs are low and that benefit is passed to us the customer. I heard that it is practically produced tax free. That is why I recommend that you get the extra counterweight so that in the future you can use again your V15. As to this being mismatched for your table, I don't agree. I have stated before that many analog enthusiasts believe that the cost of cartridge should not exceed the cost of the turntable for reasons of tonearm rigidity, bearing quality, platter stability, motor reliability, isolation of the motor, etc. The V15 costs less than the Debut 3. The most I'd mount on it would be in the 15-18K region. Some say that if you mount a more expensive cart, the cart will eventually tell you it wants a higher level of ttable. I think being the newbie to analog that I am, I tend to be more believing and less skeptical of what experienced enthusiasts say ;D. So when Sumiko said that the Debut won't take full advantage of the V15xMR, I was ready to accept that but then I heard this cheap table sound progressively better as I moved up from Ortofon OM5 to Grado to Shure( actually I'm using the Grado only now because I broke the Shure but improvement over the OM5 was unmistakable just the same although in the US they have almost the same price point). I didn't break the Shure while mounting it. I broke it while cueing it and it slid off the spinning platter. The needle scraped the side of the platter before snapping. ;D ;D ;D Funny I remember now that Pican cautioned me about this exact same thing. I'm so traumatized by the event that everytime I set the needle down now my face is actually just a few inches off the the disc and staring at the needle. I gueess here's one more advantage of automatic TTs over manual types.
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Post by garp on May 13, 2005 9:39:44 GMT 7
sir, i've recently come across sealed V15xMRs for sale ... but I'm quite worried because I've seen two different types of packaging from different stores . . . do you still have the original box and if so can you post a pic or a link to what it should look like ? and the SHure cart is made in Mexico , right? tia Hi bayonic, nice table btw. I don't have a digicam right now. What difference did you see? I'll check tonight what my box says.
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Post by wanderlust on May 13, 2005 11:30:30 GMT 7
just to have a clearer picture of the shure cart (V15xMR) your taking about here, i decided to do a little searching and heres what i found out: Specifications:Tone Arm Mount: Standard 1/2" Cartridge Type: Moving magnet Features: Dynamic Stabilizer damper / de-staticizer; Die cast aluminum mounting block; Side Guard stylus protection system Cantilever: V15 - Ultra low mass; Beryllium / tubular 0.5 mil wall thickness / 18 mil diameter Diamond Stylus Tip: MASAR� polished natural gemstone;Micro-Ridge; Side x front radii: 0.15 x 3.0 mil Tracking Force: Effective at stylus tip; Range: 0.75 to 1.25grams; Optimum: 1.00 gram Trackability: At 1 gram tracking force (cmper second peak velocity): 400 Hz - 30 cm / sec 1 kHz - 46 5 kHz - 80 10 kHz - 60 Amplitude: 80 �m at 400 Hz Frequency Response: Essentially flat from 10 to 25,000 Hz Stereo Channel Balance: Within 1.5 dB Channel Separation - Typical at: 1 kHz - 30 dB; 10 kHz - 20 dB Output Voltage: Typical at 1 kHz: 3.0 mV; RMS at 5 cm/sec peak velocity Recommended Load: 47 kilohms in parallel with 250 pf Net Weight: 6.6 grams Height: 15.875 mm Warranty: Full one-year Replacement Stylus: User-replaceable VN5xMR Features:FLAT FREQUENCY RESPONSE ACROSS THE AUDIO SPECTRUM: The V15VxMR is the premier example of the natural sound of Shure cartridges.Unlike most low-output moving coil products, it faithfully renders the music as itwas recorded, neither emphasizing nor de-emphasizing any part of the signalinscribed in the vinyl groove. ONE GRAM TRACKING FORCE EXTENDS RECORD LIFE: With the lowest mass stylus ever developed, the V15VxMR reduces recordwear to its theoretical minimum. While most high-performance cartridgesrequire two grams of force on the stylus tip, the Shure V15VxMR requires justone gram - half as much pressure on the grooves of your irreplaceable records. A MICROWALL/Be TM CANTILEVER FOR UNPARALLELED GROOVETRACKING: The exceptionally thin-walled, tubular beryllium cantilever has the lowesteffective mass, and highest stiffness-to-mass ratio of any stylus cantilever evermanufactured - making possible the V15�s unequaled high-frequency trackingability, and guaranteeing against the extreme groove damage caused bymistracking. This unique cantilever is able to respond in real-time to any signalinscribed on the groove, a particularly difficult task in the densely packed andintricate high-frequency signal range, where stylus tip movement is most rapid. A MICRO-RIDGE DIAMOND FOR UNSURPASSED SIGNAL TRACING: In a patented process, the front radius of a natural diamond is cut to a broad0.003 of an inch to create a large "footprint" for the gentlest possible tracing.The side, or groove contact radius is sculpted to an incomparably narrow0.00015 of an inch, and then MASAR TM polished to minimize friction. Theresulting ultra-fine tip is able to trace the music signal with unexcelled accuracy,bringing out musical detail missed by other high-performance cartridges,particularly in the complex high-frequency spectrum. A DYNAMIC STABILIZER THAT FUNCTIONS AS A MINIATURE SHOCKABSORBER: Shure's exclusive viscous-damped Dynamic Stabilizer maintains a uniformdistance between the cartridge and the record under difficult playing conditions,such as those caused by warped records, or mismatched tonearm mass. Whensuch stabilization is not required, the stabilizer brush can be locked up into itsdetent position, which, under ideal playing conditions, can provide even bettersound quality. SIDE GUARD STYLUS PROTECTION SYSTEM: The SIDE-GUARD stylus protection system helps prevent stylus damage if thecartridge accidentally slides across a record. This unique feature responds toside thrusts on the stylus by withdrawing the entire stylus cantilever and tip safelyinto the stylus housing before the cantilever can be damaged. Some awards and reviews:Stereophile Analog Source of the Year! The Absolute Sound Editor's Choice Best Buy - 2004! "This bargain classic is still a standard bearer for MM designs...LPs just sound right with the Shure! - Neil Gader, The Absolute Sound "Its basic nature, coupled with its superb tracking ability, yielded a completely grain and etch-free sonic picture that was never fatiguing or hard sounding." Michael Fremer, Stereophile "Arguably the most accurate cartridge made at any price." - Steven Baird (The Sensible Sound) "The V15 still remains the moving magnet cartridge standard: the phonograph cannot live without it." - John Gatski, The Audiophile Voice The accolades for this superior moving magnet cartridge go on and on. And the most important of all, THE PRICE:$349.99 But as already said shure has already stop or would no longer build this.
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Post by sandawa on May 13, 2005 13:05:19 GMT 7
kahit itigil nila ang production niyan, it will still be useful decades from now. my V15 was type III pa made in late '70s pero maayos pa tumunog. type IV stylus ang nakakabit, napagkasya, since it was hard to buy replacement stylus back then. got my last stylus, Shure original, from a San Francisco shop (Amoeba) at $50 (Aray!!) in mid '90s.
Jing de Guzman (Audiophile) handled this model back in '80s but for so many years wala siyang stock. mabuti bumalik ang demand. naalala ko, in early '90s, meron siyang dalawa brand new, boxed, type IV na binebenta ng bargain for P1.5K (?) each sa bagong tindahan niya diyan sa may Boni, but no takers.
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Post by wanderlust on May 13, 2005 15:43:09 GMT 7
how i wish i could get my hands of one of this babys, how i wish....
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Post by stereophile on May 14, 2005 22:27:57 GMT 7
sir, i've recently come across sealed V15xMRs for sale ... but I'm quite worried because I've seen two different types of packaging from different stores . . . do you still have the original box and if so can you post a pic or a link to what it should look like ? and the SHure cart is made in Mexico , right? tia Bayonic- The box is silver with Shure V15xMR. I bought it almost 2 yrs ago. Inside. the cart is packed in a spring loaded maroon case. It comes with a brush and the mounting hardware. A Shure protractor w/ 2 null points and 2 rubber wedges for stopping the platter from rotating while doing the mounting. I recommend you get a Shure stylus force gauge for accurate setting of the tracking force. Better still is the Expressimo Digital stylus force gauge. Either is better than trusting the gradations on the counterweights. Remember, with the brush guard down, this tracks at 1.25 gms. With the guard up (as in my set-up) it is at 1 gm! Don't think any cart comes in lighter TF. The V15xMR is the FINAL version of the venerable V15. Its a classic. I believe Audiophile in MCS has one in stock still.
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Post by bayonic on May 15, 2005 6:07:21 GMT 7
Bayonic- The box is silver with Shure V15xMR. I bought it almost 2 yrs ago. Inside. the cart is packed in a spring loaded maroon case. It comes with a brush and the mounting hardware. A Shure protractor w/ 2 null points and 2 rubber wedges for stopping the platter from rotating while doing the mounting. I recommend you get a Shure stylus force gauge for accurate setting of the tracking force. Better still is the Expressimo Digital stylus force gauge. Either is better than trusting the gradations on the counterweights. Remember, with the brush guard down, this tracks at 1.25 gms. With the guard up (as in my set-up) it is at 1 gm! Don't think any cart comes in lighter TF. The V15xMR is the FINAL version of the venerable V15. Its a classic. I believe Audiophile in MCS has one in stock still. Thanks for the info ... sir stereophile sir garp, i've seen two different packaging . one is exactly what stereophile has described . i remember there's another case inside the outer cardboard box. the other packaging is smaller in size and does not contain an inner case . btw ... thanks for posting your "problem" with the project and the different carts . i'm still using the stock ortofons on mine and plan to upgrade the carts next. one more question nga pala : i was also asking for the price for a spare stylus for the V15xMR ... halos kapareho na ng presyo ng cart . is this normal ?
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