starting on analog? tips & advice

[iceman90a]

so you (like me) have finally decided to set-up a turntable... congratulations! ;D

but let me warn you that i am not claiming to be an expert - but i do want to share some tips and advice i have received from those who are, in hope that i may be able to help you as they have helped me

Q1: Direct drive or belt drive?

Usually, newbies skip to this question immediately, but let me nudge you back a bit... first question should be

Q1: What is my budget?

You will always be able to find a "better" table somewhere - the question is can you afford it? First off set how much you wnt to spend... in my case i have set a budget of 20k maximum

Q2: New production or 2nd hand?

After setting your budget - you might realize that you will find 'older' higher model tables that you can buy for the price of a new production entry level table.

If you do check the following about the older table:

1 - is it a good design
2 - was it used properly / how long used
3 - why is it being sold
4 - will it suit your purpose

New production tables have the advantage of less problems (usually) because they are new... no wear & tear, warranty from store where it is bought, new technology.. however some are usually made of cheaper materials than the tables of old... so you will have to make that call

Q3: will it match my records/records i will buy?

If you have expensive audiophile records na minana pa nyo - it would not be right to buy a chep turntable that will scratch the music off and devalue them

On the other hand - why buy a $$$$$ table and play P50 records you by from garage sales

So its all about the music first:
- disco lp's? look for dj tables
- jazz & vocals? new prodn tables are decent for these

Q4: what else should i know?

now its time for the others to chip in ;D

[bayonic]

starting on analog ? my advise ?

DON'T !











magiging kaagaw ka lang sa plaka

seriously , I started buying LPs again for their album art. when i heard how surprisingly good they ACTUALLY sound as well as looked despite their age and bargain price , then I started to collect them seriously.
it's my long-term plan to keep them until my retirement days when I would have all the time in the world to enjoy them.
they have lasted 10-30 years now and i'm pretty sure they will last another 20 years or so.

[audioboy]

save some for your phono stage syempre.

[sandawa]

getting immersed into analog audio requires patience, time, and significant investment nowadays (nung panahon namin napakamura niyan).

it means:

- having the time to properly maintain your deck;
- cleaning the stylus regularly (but not too frequently, otherwise the diamond stylus would fall much earlier even before it wears out);
- adding more cartridges, or record decks, to get the most benefit from your hobby (sonic improvement on this medium is 90% cartridge/stylus dependent);
- getting familiar with the optimum setting of your deck, including tracking and and anti-skating force as well as placement and base stability;
- adding more vinyl albums and never leave the store with a sealed album. always insist that a brand new vinyl be opened by the saleslady before leaving to ensure there's no defect on it. this was a quality control standard in Japan in the '80s but was an option in the US and never followed in RP.
- cleaning your vinyls regularly with specialized fluid, cloth and brushes that are no longer available in the market (distilled water is an option for cleaning, cloth should be soft walang himulmul, brush should be horse's hair);
- getting a good storage cabinet;
- unlike the old way of storing vinyls keeping them standing tightly together to avoid warping, i opted to use storage grids with no more than 20 albums for each grid. that reduces the pressure on each vinyl to deform as well as easier access when it's time to find a long lost title. the problem with tight storage filing is it's difficult to access especially if you have a thousand vinyls on file. it also degrades album cover art. if you're familiar with the way ACA Video stores its laser discs before, it's something like that. filing is thru alphabetical grids, you see the attractive cover art immediately, and record is easy to pull out from the files.


humahaba na. i'll add on to these as we go along.

[ppp383]

For the newbie I suggest you start now on analog, there's a saying that to understand the future you must study that past and good thing is, it is not yet a past for the tuntable but with the ever increasing development in the cd technology, LP's stayed foot and getting rarer and rarer, prices of new and limited pressings are too high doubling that of the cd if not tripled.

So I suggest start collecting even those you're not familiar with, who knows it might be of help in the near future...

[sandawa]

There's an interesting inquiry on our other forum with respect to setting up the tracking and anti skating forces of a tonearm and this could be valuable info for newbies, or those who maybe confused a bit. So, I might as well post these tips here:

1. When starting, get the tonearm balanced (arm should float) and set the vertical tracking gauge to zero. Then, adjust the tracking force through the tonearm's counterweight at a figure recommended for your cartridge. If you're using low-mass cartridges such as Ortofon's OM or Concorde series, or similar type from other brands, the vertical tracking force (VTF) should be about 1 gram or less. If it's one of the bigger/heavier cartridges such as Shure, AT, Pickering, Grado or P-mounts, set VTF from 1.5 to 2 grams. The maximum VTF is 3 but it applies to the old "stone-heavy" pickups that drag conical styluses generally used for mono records. So, avoid no. 3, please, otherwise kaskas ang aabutin ng plaka at wallet mo.

2. It is imperative to always balance the tonearm and adjust the gauge to zero once you install a new cartridge or plug in a new headshell. This is because cartridges differ in weights and you should find the ideal downward pressure (VTF) for those cartridges. Too low or too high VTF would be disastrous to your vinyl (tatalon na yan forever since the diamond already made a new cut/groove on your record) or even ruin your diamond stylus tip.

3. If your record deck is pre-fitted with a cartridge, it should have the correct azimuth (diamond stylus sits perpendicular to the record groove ensuring optimum contact for left and right grooves that correspond to stereo channels.) If you were provided a protractor gauge, use it to check if the adjustment is okay. Ocular inspection and adjustment could be done by using a mirror and small screwdriver.

4. The anti-skating adjustment is quite important especially for heavy cartridges. It sets your cartridge to a perfect play with equal pressure to the record grooves, left and right channel. Thus, it prevents your cartridge from sliding in or out of the groove. The anti-skating force is generally within the range of the VTF. If you set your VTF at 1 gram, set the anti-skating force also at 1. The traditional numerical adjustments still apply for tonearms that use lead overhangs as counterweight.

5. In many cases, adjustments in VTF and anti-skating are "oido" or depending on what you hear. In my experience, the higher recommended VTF gives the best sonic result. But it also increases wear of the record grooves. Too low VTF also damages the vinyl. If you feel left and right movements of the tonearm are balanced, no pressure at all from any side, don't change the anti-skating force, even if the VTF has higher value.

So, timplahing mabuti bago kalampagin ang seksing kapitbahay! Kung nakasimangot siya paglabas, mali ang timpla. Kung nakangiti, you got it perfect! You may now play Chuck Berry's "My Ding-a-ling."

[dracula]

sandawa said:

There's an interesting inquiry on our other forum with respect to setting up the tracking and anti skating forces of a tonearm and this could be valuable info for newbies, or those who maybe confused a bit. So, I might as well post these tips here:

1. When starting, get the tonearm balanced (arm should float) and set the vertical tracking gauge to zero. Then, adjust the tracking force through the tonearm's counterweight at a figure recommended for your cartridge. If you're using low-mass cartridges such as Ortofon's OM or Concorde series, or similar type from other brands, the vertical tracking force (VTF) should be about 1 gram or less. If it's one of the bigger/heavier cartridges such as Shure, AT, Pickering, Grado or P-mounts, set VTF from 1.5 to 2 grams. The maximum VTF is 3 but it applies to the old "stone-heavy" pickups that drag conical styluses generally used for mono records. So, avoid no. 3, please, otherwise kaskas ang aabutin ng plaka at wallet mo.

2. It is imperative to always balance the tonearm and adjust the gauge to zero once you install a new cartridge or plug in a new headshell. This is because cartridges differ in weights and you should find the ideal downward pressure (VTF) for those cartridges. Too low or too high VTF would be disastrous to your vinyl (tatalon na yan forever since the diamond already made a new cut/groove on your record) or even ruin your diamond stylus tip.

3. If your record deck is pre-fitted with a cartridge, it should have the correct azimuth (diamond stylus sits perpendicular to the record groove ensuring optimum contact for left and right grooves that correspond to stereo channels.) If you were provided a protractor gauge, use it to check if the adjustment is okay. Ocular inspection and adjustment could be done by using a mirror and small screwdriver.

4. The anti-skating adjustment is quite important especially for heavy cartridges. It sets your cartridge to a perfect play with equal pressure to the record grooves, left and right channel. Thus, it prevents your cartridge from sliding in or out of the groove. The anti-skating force is generally within the range of the VTF. If you set your VTF at 1 gram, set the anti-skating force also at 1. The traditional numerical adjustments still apply for tonearms that use lead overhangs as counterweight.

5. In many cases, adjustments in VTF and anti-skating are "oido" or depending on what you hear. In my experience, the higher recommended VTF gives the best sonic result. But it also increases wear of the record grooves. Too low VTF also damages the vinyl. If you feel left and right movements of the tonearm are balanced, no pressure at all from any side, don't change the anti-skating force, even if the VTF has higher value.

So, timplahing mabuti bago kalampagin ang seksing kapitbahay! Kung nakasimangot siya paglabas, mali ang timpla. Kung nakangiti, you got it perfect! You may now play Chuck Berry's "My Ding-a-ling."

parang ako ang nagtanong nito ah!

[dracula]

Sandawa,

You said with regards to the VTF that for the Ortofon OM cartrdige the setting should be 1 gram or less...how do I set it to 1 gram or less? the VTF adjustment for the Pro-Ject which is located with the counterweight (yun ba yung VTF adjustment?) has a range of 0 to 25 yata so for the 1 gram or less how do I set that up?

[sandawa]

to tell you frankly, i'm lost with that range. i'm not familiar with Project turntable, but the usual values in vertical tracking force of TTs is between 0 to 3 grams. if Project's VTF is 0 to 25, you could probably work on ratios there.

the only logical explanation is that your TT used 1/10 of a gram per notch. that means the 0-25 range corresponds to 0 to 2.5 gram range. kasi naman wala nang gumagamit ng 3-gram setting ngayon dahil maliliit na ang stereo groove at mas efficient na ang stylus designs. i have Shure V-15 type 4 and AT-155LC which are big but the maximum setting i'm using for these is 2 grams (recommended is 1.5 to 1.75).

if you're using a new Ortofon OM, it should have a manual and thus you could make the adjustment based on recommended figures. I have an Ortofon Concorde and OM-30 here, and they're set at 1.25 grams although the recommended was 1 gram. i'm taking the risk since I hear a difference in the two settings.

[audioboy]

in case anyone is interested: Bulls Eye Bubble Spirit Level



-Utilises only a single vial to level in all horizontal planes.

-Can be permanently attached to mobile equipment.

Check this site: www.rsphilippines.com/cgi-bin/bv/initSession.jsp?goto=/browse/Campaign.jsp&Name=phess&IncludeFile=campaignIncludes/ess_oct/pdt07.html&logText=ph0071d

[iceman90a]

audioboy said:

in case anyone is interested: Bulls Eye Bubble Spirit Level



-Utilises only a single vial to level in all horizontal planes.

-Can be permanently attached to mobile equipment.

Check this site: www.rsphilippines.com/cgi-bin/bv/initSession.jsp?goto=/browse/Campaign.jsp&Name=phess&IncludeFile=campaignIncludes/ess_oct/pdt07.html&logText=ph0071d

kailangan ko ng ganyan, saan ba mura makabili? tsaka saan dapat center yan? pag nakapatong sa platter o sa plinth?

[dracula]

sandawa said:

to tell you frankly, i'm lost with that range. i'm not familiar with Project turntable, but the usual values in vertical tracking force of TTs is between 0 to 3 grams. if Project's VTF is 0 to 25, you could probably work on ratios there.

the only logical explanation is that your TT used 1/10 of a gram per notch. that means the 0-25 range corresponds to 0 to 2.5 gram range. kasi naman wala nang gumagamit ng 3-gram setting ngayon dahil maliliit na ang stereo groove at mas efficient na ang stylus designs. i have Shure V-15 type 4 and AT-155LC which are big but the maximum setting i'm using for these is 2 grams (recommended is 1.5 to 1.75).

if you're using a new Ortofon OM, it should have a manual and thus you could make the adjustment based on recommended figures. I have an Ortofon Concorde and OM-30 here, and they're set at 1.25 grams although the recommended was 1 gram. i'm taking the risk since I hear a difference in the two settings.

I worked out the VTF adjustments already....a guy from another website who has a project TT sorted it out for me thanks for the info anyway....

[audioboy]

iceman90a said:

kailangan ko ng ganyan, saan ba mura makabili? tsaka saan dapat center yan? pag nakapatong sa platter o sa plinth?

this TT can give you an idea of where it can be placed:



ako sa lahat ko pinapatong. pero pinaka importante sakin sa platter.

wala pa ako round bubble spirit level. bobby got one in ACE Hardware, SM Megamall. i once went there but found none.

i bought a stanley aluminum type bubble level at ACE Hardware, Market Market.



ihatejazz sells a clearaudio bubble level in case youre interested.

[kimpao]

audioboy said:

in case anyone is interested: Bulls Eye Bubble Spirit Level



-Utilises only a single vial to level in all horizontal planes.

-Can be permanently attached to mobile equipment.

Check this site: www.rsphilippines.com/cgi-bin/bv/initSession.jsp?goto=/browse/Campaign.jsp&Name=phess&IncludeFile=campaignIncludes/ess_oct/pdt07.html&logText=ph0071d

Uy! not bad! Php 200 ++ for the plastic model and Php 1000k ++ for the metal version. readily available with rs. hmmmmmm........ Me, i currently use small bubble levels, T shaped-colored orange.

[dracula]

I noticed on some of the posts that records have an associated weight (180, 200 etc.) how do you know the weight of the record?

[stereophile]

dracula said:

I noticed on some of the posts that records have an associated weight (180, 200 etc.) how do you know the weight of the record?

Other than putting the LP atop a weighing scale, the LP jacket usually mentions the weight(sometimes there are stickers). Also looking and feeling the weight of the LP itself. The 200 gramers are like platos! ;D

[rstube]

kimpao said:

Uy! not bad! Php 200 ++ for the plastic model and Php 1000k ++ for the metal version. readily available with rs. hmmmmmm........ Me, i currently use small bubble levels, T shaped-colored orange.

Others might want to check out ACE at SM Mega. Bought mine there at about P200.00 [IIRC], brand is 'GENERAL'.

[audioboy]

rstube said:

Others might want to check out ACE at SM Mega. Bought mine there at about P200.00 [IIRC], brand is 'GENERAL'.

went there once pero wala ako makita.

when did you buy yours?

guys,

baka may bibili sa inyo, pasabay nalang.

TIA

[m_shoe_maker]

If I'm tired, or just don't feel like it, I don't force myself in "tuning" my analog rig.

For me, the madness of tuning one's analog rig over and over again (hoping to further push the performance envelope ), is part of the fun. However, I have to be in "The Zone" in doing this. If not, I might make mistakes, like overtightening those delicate screws, or worse, accidentally wrecking my cartridge.

I just take my time.

[s2kov]

also got circular bubble level at ACE Hardware for php 160.

rstube said:

Others might want to check out ACE at SM Mega. Bought mine there at about P200.00 [IIRC], brand is 'GENERAL'.