External DAC!....Do we need one?

[ppp383]

Is an external DAC a must to have to incorporate in our existing setup? if not, who really needs this and what type or kind of setup will greatly benefit from this external DAC?

a penny for your thought?.....

[audioboy]

ppp383 said:

Is an external DAC a must to have to incorporate in our existing setup?

Not a must have for those CD players with internal DAC.

if not, who really needs this

It is a must have for those using CD Transport only.

and what type or kind of setup will greatly benefit from this external DAC?

again, those using CD transport only will greatly benefit from this.

old CD players may likewise benefit from this. there are better electronic parts now that were not available when those old CDPs were manufactured. old cdps can take advantage of the latest technology by bypassing the internal DAC and linking it to an external DAC.

a penny for your thought?.....

just a thought...........no need for penny.

[ppp383]

But I like to share that when we (with ozzie) audition the Arcam CD73t at a store somewhere in Pasig, a big and very notable enhancement was heard hooking the said Arcam to an audio Alchemy DACman that even the salesperson of that store was surprised to hear it.

Taking into account that these cd player was one of the top cd player in the market with a big but fair price for its level, I should have heard no difference at all but it turns out that the external DAC has more to give if called upon.

[audioboy]

ppp383 said:

But I like to share that when we (with ozzie) audition the Arcam CD73t at a store somewhere in Pasig, a big and very notable enhancement was heard hooking the said Arcam to an audio Alchemy DACman that even the salesperson of that store was surprised to hear it.

Taking into account that these cd player was one of the top cd player in the market with a big but fair price for its level, I should have heard no difference at all but it turns out that the external DAC has more to give if called upon.

who owns the Alchemy DAC?

is the CD player already broken-in? how about the DAC, is it old or brand new?

[wanderlust]

this is intresting....

the x10-d belong to this category right? as external DAC?

in danger of being branded naive, i was thinking can using a pre-amp (specially tube preamp) in between the cdp and the amp (trought the cd in connector) be considered using a DAC (without giving to much color to what DAC means ha), or is it more of a buffer?

[iceman90a]

the X-10D is a buffer (analog in - analog out), same kung tube preamp nilagay mo between cdp and amp

[Octaver]

Based on my experience with Trivista DAC, "Better & Correct Soundstage", accurate Sound reproductions.
If you have deep pockets why not SEPARATES? To optimized function of each component. Most high-end equipments are designed separates. Starts from CD Transport; External DAC (Some have separate power supply) Pre-amp (some have separate PS) and Power amp.
(IMO)

[kimpao]

ppp383 said:

Is an external DAC a must to have to incorporate in our existing setup? if not, who really needs this and what type or kind of setup will greatly benefit from this external DAC?

a penny for your thought?.....

I totally agree with audioboy's thoughts.

For me, I find too much coloration in the music when using an external DAC (again this is me).

IMHO, why settle for an external DAC when you can have the real-thing (ANALOG! ). ;D Definitely this is less expensive. Soundwise, I believe that it would be better for the others to share their thoughts on this.

[hans adriane]

Maybe will use a DAC...

- if my cdp can't produce the sound i like
- If it can enhance music to sound very natural

For me naturalness is important coloration is good but if to compromise natural sound hehehehe wag na.. ;D ;D ;D

[ppp383]

Well I guess everybody has different opinion for different topic but I must say before arriving to any conclusion a thorough analysis must first be done. If we are talking about coloration, musicality, music alteration and the likes, I must ask how do we arrive at that point and what basis do we have arriving to that point? is there any written report or findings that at that junction or specific areas falls the musicality or the coloration of music, I hope that there is a generalize formula to be laid out where you can based your opinions or findings and you can safely and clearly states about the musicality or shall we say any appropriate adjectives you can attach to a particular equipment on review.....

[audioboy]

ppp383 said:

Well I guess everybody has different opinion for different topic but I must say before arriving to any conclusion a thorough analysis must first be done. .....

our opinion is based on our experiences with audio equipment. i dont think that a thorough analysis is necessary because audio is very subjective. One may percieve a particular audio equipment as colored while others may take that as natural sounding gear.

However, your premise in your query of whether it is a must to incorporate a DAC in our present setup can be answered objectively. i am refering to your query that started this topic, which i qoute:

Is an external DAC a must to have to incorporate in our existing setup? if not, who really needs this and what type or kind of setup will greatly benefit from this external DAC?

The key terms in your query are the following:

1. MUST HAVE
2. PRESENT SETUP

"Must-have" suggests that it is a matter of necessity that we should have in our "present setup". Thus, the reply:

Is an external DAC a must to have to incorporate in our existing setup?



Not a must have for those CD players with internal DAC.

Quote:if not, who really needs this



It is a must have for those using CD Transport only.

Quote:and what type or kind of setup will greatly benefit from this external DAC?



again, those using CD transport only will greatly benefit from this.

old CD players may likewise benefit from this. there are better electronic parts now that were not available when those old CDPs were manufactured. old cdps can take advantage of the latest technology by bypassing the internal DAC and linking it to an external DAC.

It is not that i dont want to introduce DAC in my system. It is just that i dont find it as a "Must-Have". To quote octaver:

Based on my experience with Trivista DAC, "Better & Correct Soundstage", accurate Sound reproductions.
If you have deep pockets why not SEPARATES? To optimized function of each component. Most high-end equipments are designed separates. Starts from CD Transport; External DAC (Some have separate power supply) Pre-amp (some have separate PS) and Power amp.

if i have a fat account then why not. i have heard a trivista DAC and indeed, there was improvement. how big was it..... not as big as what the price of Trivista would suggest. hhmmm. Now, do you thinks it is a must have?.... i dont think so.

Kim is right, why resort to a coversion and spend a lot of money when you can have a pure analog sound at a price that wont rob your bank account.

cheers! ;D

[ppp383]

Or maybe a better title would be"Who needs a DAC? One who wants to give more Life to Music or One who wants to induce more life to Equipment?....... (IMO)

[ozzie]

the topic is very interesting and debatable.

if you are into analog (like kimpao), no need. diretso na.

if you FEEL/PERCEIVE any diff between what you have right now (meaning your existing cdp) and what you don't (meaning your existing cdp connected to a dac) and you FEEL you need it, then you need it.

if you FEEL/PERCEIVE there's no diif or you FEEL/PERCEIVE there are differences that you FEEL/PERCEIVE that are not relevant or according to your taste, then probably, you don't.

In the end, any opinion on this topic is right bec musical taste is subjective.

[avphile]

If you are into separates like a CD-transport-ONLY gear, then an external DAC is a MUST-HAVE.

However, if you route your transport-only player's output digitally to a modern preamp/processor or reciever, no need as these pre/pros or receivers already act as your DAC.

Many flagship receivers have excellent DACs that you can use with entry level players that have good transport qualities.

If you have a good entry or mid-fi digital player with proven excellent transport stability, an external DAC with better jitter figures can improve the sonics a bit but at a cost equivalent to an expensive CD player. At a certain price point, especially in the flagship ranges, an already excellent CD player with excellent internal DAC can hardly be improved upon by an external DAC costing twice.

[ppp383]

avphile said:

If you are into separates like a CD-transport-ONLY gear, then an external DAC is a MUST-HAVE.

However, if you route your transport-only player's output digitally to a modern preamp/processor or reciever, no need as these pre/pros or receivers already act as your DAC.

Many flagship receivers have excellent DACs that you can use with entry level players that have good transport qualities.

If you have a good entry or mid-fi digital player with proven excellent transport stability, an external DAC with better jitter figures can improve the sonics a bit but at a cost equivalent to an expensive CD player. At a certain price point, especially in the flagship ranges, an already excellent CD player with excellent internal DAC can hardly be improved upon by an external DAC costing twice.

hmmmmm, I think this is a great lesson!!!........... do you mean that an amp with thx certified or digital ready amp like for ex. Marantz pm-54D (D stands for digital), pm-84D and the like has its own DAC inside and can equal or maybe much better than what's inside those cd players?

Another thing is that there are a lot of current DAC with different specs, how do you know which one is better, then there are those upsampling, downsampling and non-sampling, how can you find out which one you really need?

[avphile]

ppp383 said:

hmmmmm, I think this is a great lesson!!!........... do you mean that an amp with thx certified or digital ready amp like for ex. Marantz pm-54D (D stands for digital), pm-84D and the like has its own DAC inside and can equal or maybe much better than what's inside those cd players?

All HT receivers have DACs. But not all have DACs better than the internal DAC of a player. Depends on the generation or iteration of DAC chips used. Presumably the newer receivers have more powerful DACs compared to older gears. So in general, if your player is 2 years old, there's a good chance it will benefit from a DAC in a more recent receiver, especially in the mid-to-flagship range.

Another thing is that there are a lot of current DAC with different specs, how do you know which one is better, then there are those upsampling, downsampling and non-sampling, how can you find out which one you really need?

Whether upsampling or not yields better sonics is again a debatable one. They both do a good job of recovering the analog waveforms. The implementation difference is purely a mathematical issue. They each have their pros and cons. Pundits are divided on whether to upsample or not. Excellent brands do either way and yield excellent sonics. Life is too short join their arguments. I would just get whatever pleases my ears. ;D

[ppp383]

Well I think you're right, Life is too short...... Think I go back to LP'ssssssssssss, yehey!!!!!.................. This I can call...GO BACK TO THE FUTURE.....

thanks sir AVphile.......