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Post by iceman90a on Jan 14, 2005 12:50:06 GMT 7
you are just starting out, you have the AVR, a pair of fronts...
now what will you get next to experience surround sound?
i go for surround speakers (kaya nga surround sound eh) - others go for the center spkr first... what do you vote for - and why?
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Post by avphile on Jan 14, 2005 14:44:08 GMT 7
Unless there are 2 or more people watching in your HT room who might lose the vocal localization should they sit closer to either L or R speakers, the center speaker is not necessary.
Many HT and multi-channel set-ups forego the center speakers altogether, allowing the L and R to phantom the center and give a more seamless center vocal image.
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s2kov
Critical Listener
Posts: 353
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Post by s2kov on Jan 14, 2005 15:10:19 GMT 7
Center Speaker.
Why?
For more clarity of dialogue. ;D
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Post by hans adriane on Jan 14, 2005 18:07:31 GMT 7
Center Speaker. Why? For more clarity of dialogue. ;D Agree more for clarity remember wala kwenta effects if you don't understand the story hehehehe tsaka for surround there is always an alternative like your old speaker while center you need it timbre match with your fronts speaker. ;D |
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james16
Audionut
power for the digital revolution
Posts: 111
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Post by james16 on Jan 14, 2005 20:15:02 GMT 7
center for the dialogue... sa tinging ko as much as possible same as your fronts para maganda integration, tapos surround kahit anong speaker na kaya avr mo... ;D
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Post by BGA VI on Jan 14, 2005 22:12:22 GMT 7
center din for me , sa surround kahit ano pwede na.  |
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Post by classicman on Jan 15, 2005 12:09:37 GMT 7
i'll go for the sorround speakers.....so as to immediately experience the "FEEL" of a home theater  |
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Post by audioboy on Jan 15, 2005 14:05:46 GMT 7
you are just starting out, you have the AVR, a pair of fronts... now what will you get next to experience surround sound? i go for surround speakers (kaya nga surround sound eh) - others go for the center spkr first... what do you vote for - and why? center speaker. why? para gawin kong surround speaker ko for the right channel. tapos isa na naman for my left surround. pag nabuo ko na surround speakers then another center speaker for center sound na ;D ;D ;D seriously, to produce surround sound you should have surround speakers. if you want surround sound right away, buy surround speakers. |
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Post by iceman90a on Jan 15, 2005 22:06:19 GMT 7
ok debate time para masaya *Center speaker para malinaw dialog, tsaka same as fronts para maganda integration* - most center speakers do not have the same driver size as the fronts, lalo na pag floorstanders ang fronts - kaya duda ako na madali ang integration nito... mas maganda pa rin tyak ang naka phantom lang center para 2 parehong speakers (fronts) lang ang involved - mas malinaw dialog? di ba kaya palinawin ang dialog ng dalawa lang? ibig sabihin pag nakinig ka ng stereo cd eh malabo tunog kasi 2 lang gamit mo... kung malinaw sa kanta, dapat malinaw din sa dialog... di po ako nagmamagaling, nagsisimula lang ng discussion para may matutunan at maitama ako, kung ako ay mali ;D |
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Post by Octaver on Jan 18, 2005 11:21:20 GMT 7
you are just starting out, you have the AVR, a pair of fronts... now what will you get next to experience surround sound? i go for surround speakers (kaya nga surround sound eh) - others go for the center spkr first... what do you vote for - and why? For me sorrounds first, like what you've said "sorround experience". Center can be set as "Phantom" to your fronts. (automatically if you set your center to NONE) Enjoy your HT!!!!! |
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Post by wanderlust on Jan 18, 2005 13:33:40 GMT 7
sorrounds for me. as i have already a center i tried to see if diabling it and having the fronts phantom the center would have much difference albiet noticeable. for ordinary dialogues wla major diff from having a center channel to that of a phantom, however dialogues in fast moving and very noisy setting tends to get a little muddy with phantom (scenes where there is heavy shooting of explosion for example), and in scenes where things (specially cars) travel/move from the left center right channel (vice-versa) having it phantomed somehow "kills" the effect, d gaano gaganda,minsa pa nga d na noticeable yong progression. finally in multiple conversations where 3 or more characters speaks at the same time or in progression specially pag moving then sila (walking around) d rin gaano kaganda imaging pag phantom. however i still would want to have sorrounds first, as sorround sound could not be phantoned by all the other speakers in your set-up, you gotta have your sorrounds! also, kung gsto m tlga maintindihan yong conversation sa movie enable the language option, no matter how annoying and destructing it is, lahat lahat mababasa mo, kahit yong bulong bulongan ;D so also, oo ngat pwedeng kahit naong speaker lang yong sorrounds, still kailangan mo pa rin my speaker for sorrounds dba, e what if you are to choose only of having sorrounds o center lang, no ifs and buts, uunahin mo pa rin ba yong center m  ;D |
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Post by hans adriane on Jan 19, 2005 19:12:53 GMT 7
ok debate time para masaya *Center speaker para malinaw dialog, tsaka same as fronts para maganda integration* - most center speakers do not have the same driver size as the fronts, lalo na pag floorstanders ang fronts - kaya duda ako na madali ang integration nito... mas maganda pa rin tyak ang naka phantom lang center para 2 parehong speakers (fronts) lang ang involved - mas malinaw dialog? di ba kaya palinawin ang dialog ng dalawa lang? ibig sabihin pag nakinig ka ng stereo cd eh malabo tunog kasi 2 lang gamit mo... kung malinaw sa kanta, dapat malinaw din sa dialog... di po ako nagmamagaling, nagsisimula lang ng discussion para may matutunan at maitama ako, kung ako ay mali ;D Senor hehehehe as i recall kasi almost 1 year na din ako wala HT setup nun wala ako center speaker like wanderlust said minsan kulang on simultaneous scene specially dialogue tapos i remember karamihan ng effect start with the center then spread and share with your fronts.. tapos meron empty space na feeling sa center di mapuno yun room ( well meron ako gamit na surround nun pero walng center ) ;D ;D Ganito KOya Iceman try mo only the center and surround naka ON without yun front you'll not notice na naka off pala yun fronts mo.. kahit di naka phantom mode. ;D ;D |
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Post by wanderlust on Jan 21, 2005 11:40:56 GMT 7
Senor hehehehe as i recall kasi almost 1 year na din ako wala HT setup nun wala ako center speaker like wanderlust said minsan kulang on simultaneous scene specially dialogue tapos i remember karamihan ng effect start with the center then spread and share with your fronts.. tapos meron empty space na feeling sa center di mapuno yun room ( well meron ako gamit na surround nun pero walng center ) ;D ;D i have read somewhere that 60% of the sound in a dvd format movie goes to the center. i am just wondering then, is this only because of the recent in-flux of HT systems/set-ups? what then was the sound field of movies in vcd, vhs even betamax formats? i have experience this na Koya, many a times na nga. as you may have noticed, i usually use only one speaker for audio/ht fronts, this despite having several other speakers, nakakatamad kasi palipat lipat, papalit palit, specially nong A audio na floorstander pa isa sa mga speakers ko. most of the times i use to sets of speaker cables din one for the amp, the other for the avr.... just to be in the safe side i do turn off speakers A and B para kung my accidental na mag power on sa either na gamit walang so called "akyats hands" ma short yong cables. minsan makakalimutan ko ng e turn on yong main speakers, minsan nga pati yong suib makakalimutan ko, specially kong anak ko lng nanonood... this i have observed, once while watching spidey 2 i have forgotten to turn on the main speakers, natapos yong movie without me noticing na d pala gumagana yong main speakers.wla man lang ako nanotis na lacknig sa sound while watching the movie to give me a hint na d pala gumagana fronts ko. still i am for surrounds ;D |
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Post by hans adriane on Jan 21, 2005 20:47:46 GMT 7
Senor wanderlust,
Kala ko center boy ka hmmm yun pala surround din. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by wanderlust on Jan 25, 2005 14:49:39 GMT 7
Senor wanderlust, Kala ko center boy ka hmmm yun pala surround din. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D wala kasi akong surrounds sir e.... gamit ko kahit ano lang na d pa akin kay punk kid pa... kaya surrounds ako ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by bluemagic on Feb 7, 2005 12:46:28 GMT 7
kung di ka naman mahilig sa action movies at puro drama lang, mag center na lang muna para mas malinaw dialog. pag action movies pinag-usapan, surround syempre! |
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Post by avphile on Feb 8, 2005 13:03:39 GMT 7
I could think of only 2 reasons why a center speaker is needed.
Firstly, in a large room where the L and R speakers are spaced far apart. AND your listening position is meant to accommodate more than 3 persons along a sofa or two, a center channel speaker will help localize the center vocals better. Especially if the farthest person is seated more towards either the L or R speakers and would lose the proper orientation between what he sees on screen and what he hears.
Many audiophiles, however, consider the center channel as totally unnecessary, whether for multichannel music or HT. Especially in a small room where 2 people would be at most in the listening area. A well imaged center soundstage in the listening position coming from a well-placed and detailed L and R speakers are enough.
Clarity of vocals is NOT the objective of any center speaker. Though the ads would have you believe that. LOCALIZATION is. In most regular TVs, it really helps a lot to have a center channel immediately below or above the TV so that you get a sense that the person on that screen and his/her voice are suitably oriented.
BUT...
A well-imaged phantom center is produced with properly designed and positioned stereo pairs and, if they are excellent to begin with, no center channel can improve on their clairity. If your L and R speakers somehow obscure the clarity of imaged center vocals in a phantomed center, you may have a real problem with your L and R speakers. Detailed speakers do not obscure phantomed center vocals.
So, secondly, if your L and R speakers are not well positioned to provide great center imaging and are not detailed enough, so that an impression of muddled center vocals is created, a good center speaker helps.
There are often a lot of hurdles to overcome when you have more than a stereo pair. Delay compensation is one. Level matching another. Both must be considered to ensure that you get time coherence and identical SPLs from all speakers at your listening position Timber matching is also critical. But even in a supposedly timbre matched set, there are still timbral differences as well as dispersion differences between centers and mains. For one thing, the very common d'Apollito arrayed center speakers have a lobing dispersion trait that colors them differently from their matched vertically arrayed L and R pairs. Timbre is never identical (unless the center driver configuration is identical with the mains.) And for sure, because of cabinet volume differences, bass responses can often be different. Many centers have different LF responses compared with their matched main speakers. Setting the receiver's speaker setting to SMALL may help solve the problem in bass management behaviour. But only a reciever with independent center, rear and front bass crossover settings will do justice. These features are often found only in the mid-priced receivers and up.
Solution that most audiophiles find satisfactory: take out the center speakers and just phantom the center. Simplified dispersion trait is achieved and, if excellent stereo imaging is present, the center information is imaged correctly for 1-2 persons in the audience. Detail is not lost and you get perfect center timbral qualities in comon with the L and R mains. And for multichannel music, using rear speakers identical with the fronts provides the most satisfying discrete multichannel sound experience. Just my thoughts.
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